Little story about school education in Germany
This is a personal blog. Isn`t? – Yes. Can I write my personal opinion in my personal blog? Let me think… Of course! Should my personal opinion be somehow conform to the mainstream opinion? – 
I think you should know the answer
However, during Google continues to mark my site with malware warnings (), because the Google test of cleaned sites takes Sooooooo Looong. 
, I want to tell you one story, concerning a theme which scares me already for a long time. Don’t laugh, but I wanna speak about school education in Germany.
Maybe you heard already about Pisa Study Results of German “Schuler”? If not, I tell you, their results are really not impressive. How it comes…? Read in the following…
Historical
After the WW2 in West and East Germany began denazification. Germans have done good work and succeeded in that by throwing out everything of the Third Reich. Also the education methods in the Third Reich where considered as unappropriate, I’m not an expert but can imagine that they can appear as too strikt, too idealized for modern times. And therefore totaly unappropriate for modern children. The same happened also after the “unification of Germany” in truly unification is the wrong word, West Germany incorporated East Germany. And of cause education concepts of the “East-Block” (also of the enemy) where thrown out of the window, not even to look on them.
Personal Impression
If I look around and speak with my friends, who have children in school age, I gain the opinion that, the primary school is a place where children are doing everything, except of learning.
So I’m also a big friend of playing. But excuse me, if my son goes to school, I expect that he learns something there! In best case, my children should can read and write and simple math after the first year in school not after the third or even fifth one!
It’s nothing impossible for every child! But children have to be motivated to learn, to be smart, to be educated. I don’t wanna say they should be compeled to learn, mostly it won`t have much success without motivation, but teachers and parents have to be strikt with that in every case.
However, it’s very difficult to be a teacher in our times, teachers have NO rights and might over their pupil, further they really believe ( because it is taught them at the university) that children can learn better without the stress of competition and without any effort and any pressure to perform at least in the beginning of the school. Bullshit! Children love to succeed, love competition. To compete, to win, to learn and to enjoy-this is their natural urge, I can see it every day, when I look at my little son.
But let me tell you one story of many, which finally lead me to write this article, one story I heard today.
The Story and the Questions
One friend of my wife has a child, who is the age of 5. The girl goes to the normal German preschool everyday, where they are doing something, as I think playing 
Once a week the same child also goes to a Russian preschool called “Azbuka”. Now the question: In which language does that child read? The Answer is indeed Russian!
The next question is: What the hell are they doing at the German preschool? With the same success if not better this child could play 5 days a week at a playground…
In my opinion these children are under-cultivated by the German education system in their best years! And many parents have no time to educate children at home because they are working hardly.
P.S. I remember my first “Gymnasium” class teacher, who did laughed at me, when I talked to him that German School Education is far not the best in the world. It was few years before the first smashing Pisa Study got publicity.
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Comments
Hi Boris, thank you for comment.
The story is indeed told about Hamburg. It is not a secret that southern Germany’s schools are much tougher.
I completely agree with you in point, that parent’s have enormous influence on own children. Of cause parent influence shrinks rapidly when children growth.
I think also, we mean the same, about higher education facilities. I have almost positive experiences, even my study was in the University of Hamburg, which has to solve much organizational problems
Drill methods, where also never an option for me. But my point is, that children’s brains is incredible and flexible, the younger it is. Their being is driven by playing and research ! (Own observation on 1,5 years aged son) Therefore i think, the more, they could learn in young years, the better they are later. And by learning I ‘m not talking about drill, I mean such basics, like reading, writing, math and physics which trains logic. Of cause i don’t wanna steal them childhood, I also think children should play! In best case learning by playing. Or learning with element of play or competition, when they get older. But I’m not psychologist, so I better should be silent now, and make my experience firs
Maybe the problem of today’s children lies in the modern society. Children or their education are not considered as very important. E.g. the permanent topic on media are pensions, loan and health insurance. Which are more primary for old people.
Hey guys!
I think you are both right about German Gymnasiums. Even in this “high level” education facilities one can argue about the quality of education.
In my eyes, German schools suffer from the 68-th generation that has been so popular. I think this is founded in the fantastic economical boom of the eighties in Germany. Basically, all the 68-th did wrong does not hurt much because of the economical wonder. In contrast to that other countries stepped back from ideas of “no-pressure education” and natural unguided children development. Nevertheless, I know several people studied pedagogics in Germany – they are still tought that children should grow up on their own.
Just another story is the archaic school structure in Germany. The existence of three types of school from the beginning of education separates the society in parts. With every year of this system it becomes more and more difficult to merge the schools to some extend. A logical solution could be a common school until a certain level and a late split. But look on the level difference between “Hauptschule”, “Realschule” and “Gymnasium”. Even if in my opinion it is wrong from the social point of view – today I want my children go to Gymnasium, and I’ll vote for remaining separation between it and other schools.
What about educating expert elite? Sure, they will find their way through all difficulties in school and university. The only thing needed is the wish of the child itself. The saddest thing about German school education is the descending wish of children to learn, go to Gymnasium and University… And this fact has nothing to do with one or another education system – this is the problem of the children’s parents, who still live in the 80-ies and did not recognize the entry of the country in the post-industrial age. Car builder of yesterday, who became successful with their eight years school and industrial training believe that their children will also do. Nonsense! They will not, and there are two good reasons for that. Firstly, today’s car builder is a highly skilled professional, so you need to understand electronics, composite materials, robotics, etc. to work in that area. Secondly, Germany is not experiencing 15% of annual growth anymore and most car manufacturer source their production capacities to the east…
So it is a best time to sit down with your child and tell it about the difference between history and now. And may be, after many discussions the child will understand that it has only one way to success – a good education…
Hi Shuron,
may be I should be a bit more specific about what I mean by “parental influence”. I think that (with some rare exceptions) the best school system can’t compensate for parents which are drinking beer and watching TV, instead of spending time with their kids.
The ultimate goal of a child, is to get rewards for its behavior. Under the age of 10, the child gets its rewards mainly from its parents. Later, it’s the peer group which is a bit tougher. However, if you reward your child for being silent (most likely in the above mentioned beer drinking scenario) it’ll get best at being silent. If you reward your child for playing soccer, it stands a chance to become a decent soccer player. If you appear to be delighted by the bug-prone pascal program your kid wrote and spend hours discussing it, your kid stands a chance of becoming a computer scientist.
In the school, kids are getting rewarded for mostly all of it, it’s up to you as a parent to make an emphasis on some of the topics, your kid becomes exposed to.
However, in the mass-media the technical specialization doesn’t seem to matter that much anymore. If you think about the late sixties (space race, previously atomic and hydrogen bombs), the scientists and engineers were (pathetically as it sounds) heroes of the nation (at least in the US and the USSR). From that, came a generation of engineers, which made most of the following progress happen. You, Simon, me and many others are kids of this generation of parents. However, during the same time 1968 happened and people started to search for the personal freedom to do anything you want. From that again, the current generation of teachers (at least in germany) learned, that pressure is wrong and freedom of development is right. However, these both things are not contradictory. You can leave your kid the freedom of choice, and influence it in some kind of direction. My parents never told me to do or not to do anything (besides of motorcycle and aircraft licenses ). However, my father built me a computer and my mother went with me to the airport to look at the aircraft… well, how not to become an engineer ? .
I hope, the above comment did show, what I mean by parental influence. It’s up to the parents, to make their kid wonder about the goal made by Ballack (or whatever else), or about people flying to the moon. Later on, it’s again up to the parents, to guide their kids through the pubertial peer-group pressure and to protect it’s interests.
Cheers,
Boris
Hi, Simon, thank you also, great comment!
now I sure we all talking about the same, looking on the problem with a different angles.
Good point about 68 generation! This is what I pointed to by historical outline.
Then very, very important point of existence of three types of school. Where “Hauptschule” is a synonym for blind alley. How could this school separation exists in a social order like Germany?
Also you right about economical impact.
“So it is a best time to sit down with your child and tell it about the difference between history and now. And may be, after many discussions the child will understand that it has only one way to success – a good education…”
Don’t worry we will talk about, when the time is right, at first he has to learn how to speak
@Boris parenthal influence
Parental influence is as you say enormous important. By the way, when I have arsed an impression, that school can replace parents – it is not so.
But with time children go to kinder-garden, schools and sport clubs and other make friends, where parents loose their influence which is natural.
So my point is when my little child goes to kindergarten or school, which can fill up to 10 hours a day, he should continue get something new, the mentioned basics, in best case something what I can’t teach him. (dreaming )
The other point, is also the modern society and family trends. Patchwork or incomplete families become normal and usual.
In such families socialization process can be accelerated, so that influence of outside can increase earlier, so also importance of basic school and even kinder garden grows.
Hi Boris, Hi Shuron,
I just read the posts and I’m smiling. About the becoming engineer and about learning to speak. I’m glad about this discussion. Maybe we could drink something together by chance, before we get children, who can see in this a behavior to repeat…
“Maybe we could drink something together by chance, before we get children, who can see in this a behavior to repeat…”
this sentence could be misunderstood in at least two ways
P.S. You are to late, a have already one But nothing against beer with you guys.
Hello Guys!
Everybody of U is somehow right,but I think parental influence is`t the issue which shuron wanted to point out in his post. Undoubtly, it acctually is very important for every child to get love, attention and aid from their parents, but if a school system (I can only judge about Hamburg)is inefficient children loose interest and are getting bored because no parent can give privat lessons to their child for about 12 years!
The next point is the divesification of diferent schools. there are about four types of them and in my eyes every school but the “Gymnasium” isn`t worth it to call “it” school!
If U have bad luck and finish th “Hauptschule” U are almost pre-destinated to get Hartz IV or a One-Euro-Job.
I can understand companies, who don`t want to educate their apprentices in basics of math, german or general knowledge.
The school system and the education of teachers in Hamburg must completly changed. Especially the teachers have to realize their responsibility towards the new generation. To motivate the pupil and make them have fun to learn and not to hang around in the school yard and get drunk or high in the break. This is my experience I got in the 7 school years in Hamburg.
See U soon
Now we have also one female position to the question.
Good point of teacher responsibility, of course such nothing typical German, So every school, city, state or country has good and bad teachers, some are committed others destructive.
Whereas teachers education is indeed Hamburg or Germany specific. I think it’s still affected by the 68 generation, as mentioned before.
Tank you for comment.
Hello,
First of all, I would like to say that i like your blog alot. But your info is slightly distorded. The problem is your comparing elementary education to High school education. I wasn’t even thoughly taught about the Holocaust until I was a high school freshmen.Ever since then i have been researching the Holocaust out of curiosity, but I have a friend in Germany who came to my school for a forien exchange program and she knew more about the Holocaust then I did. Do I think The Holocaust should be taught completely? Yes. But at the same time we should not tramatize small children doing so.
Hi Shuron,
I think you are right, when it comes to education in Hamburg. AFAIK, the education in southern Germany is much tougher. However, the German education can’t be that bad, if I compare the results (in professional life).
At the end of the day, the parents are (IMHO) still the greatest influence on a child. I don’t think it would be worthwhile, if the schools were transformed into drill-instructor like camps, where the children are forced to learn stuff, without really understanding it. I think this happens a lot in Russia, for instance.
I had to explain some simple math stuff to a girl visiting 6th grade of Baden-Württemberg’s gymnasium and had to find out, that they explain a set of rules for some simple things which the kids have to learn. However, they a re not explaining the reasons for these rules existence. This happens at much later point in time (probably 10th-12th grade).
Comming back to the “final product” issue. I think Germany has some very good higher education facilities. At least, people leaving a decent german university with an engineer’s degree have some insight into why things happened, the way they happened. What could probably be improved, are the pre-university offerings for interested children. This point goes probably to Russia, as they have had some very decent working groups for interested children in regard to math and computer science.
Probably, Germany would benefit from establishing specialized schools like mathematical or artistic schools as they are known in Russia. However, the freedom I have had in 10th-13th grade in a german school probably allowed me to become the specialist I am today. I don’t know, if I could have worked on my skills that much , if I had to spend my whole time on learning something about musical history of the 18th century.